People's Bike » Interviews

The 26” vs. The 700c

tdbowa — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:12:58 +0000

This post was originally written by John Watson, and can be found on Prolly is not Probably HERE

When 700cmx is No Longer 700c: the 26″ vs. 700c Debate

Tom Mosher on dual 26″ / Photo via Richmond Fixed

With all the rapid changes going on in the fixed freestyle world over the past year, you’ve got to ask yourself, “when will the bikes stop evolving?”. First it was the forks. Everyone was snapping their steel forks. People upgraded to either a Brooklyn Machine Works Gangsta Track fork or a rigid 26″ unicrown. Shortly after, new framesets were designed specifically for fixed freestyle. Then came the bigger tires. A year ago, 35c was considered big and people argued relentlessly on Trick Track that bigger tires slowed them down. Now everyone’s on at least 38c tires and some have gone up to 50c.

A few weeks ago, a thread started on Trick Track that addressed what everyone’s been wondering for months; why not 26″?

There’s more below.

Photo via Richmond Fixed

Julio from Richmond put 26″ wheels on his Charge Scissor and had to crimp his chainstays to gain tire clearance.

Photo via Richmond Fixed

Mike Schmidt did the same thing to his Leader. He’s got a 2″ tire in the front and a 1.8″ on the rear.

Photo by Andrew Temkin

In December 2008, Tom was in-between sponsorships. His BMW Gangsta Track was unridable and he had yet to receive any support from his new sponsor, Charge. Tony lent him his 26″ Redline Monocog so he could ride in NYC one weekend. After some debate, Tom put on his components from his 700c bike (including the wheels) onto the frame and rode it. The geometry was really slack, the top tube was long, the frame was super compact and the bottom-bracket was really low; all less-than-desirable characteristics for a fixed gear. He still shredded on it though and only really complained about the wheelbase and bottom bracket. Later, he tried out a Surly 1×1 and had the same complaints.

People at the time continued the “get a bmx” banter and Tom felt that there had to be a middle ground with a 26″ MTB frame and a track bike. Shortly after, he was riding a Charge Scissor. Around this time, I was on a Milwaukee Bruiser; a frameset I helped develop. These bikes were the first models to be designed with a 700c unicrown fork. Both had ample toe clearance with a 700c wheel, eliminating the need for a 650c front wheel to barspin.

Here’s the first prototype Milwaukee Bruiser. Note the 32c tires and track cranks.

The bikes changed a little bit, allowing even bigger tires and most of us switched to BMX cranks. This would open the door to even larger tire clearance. For instance, if you went with a mid-bottom bracket, you could squeeze a few extra mm’s of tire size in the rear triangle; in turn, you’d lose the 42-44mm track chainline. Another issue in which we’ll have to address later.

Now, fast forward to modern times. There are a handful of riders on 26″ wheels, front and back, on a bike designed for 700c wheels. Some obvious issue come with this; bottom bracket drop, tire clearance and general bicycle handling. But are those issue enough to keep people from riding 26″ wheelsets? Especially with the added strength of a smaller-diameter wheel. Well, the current poll on Trick Track says that 49% of people who frequent the forum and took place in the poll are currently riding 26″ wheels.This leaves 17% undecided and 34% choosing the 700c route.

This is when Alex from San Marcox, TX adds the following logic to the discussion:

700c wheel has a bead seat diameter of 622, add 19×2 (38) for two 19c tires and you’re looking at a diameter of 25.984252 inches (two 20c tires would be 26.0629921 inches)

A 26″ rim has a bead seat diameter of 559mm (22.007874 inches), add 4″ for two 2″ tires and you’re looking at 26.007874

Under this logic it seems that a 26″ rim with a 2″ tire will have a diameter right between a 700×19-20 tire.
A 26″ rim with a 2.25″ tire would have a diameter of 26.507874 inches

A 700×23 wheel/tire would have a diameter of 26.2992126 inches
A 700×25 wheel/tire would have a diameter of 26.4566929 inches

Something that Alex overlooks here is PSI won’t be the same on a 2″ tires as it is on a 25c or even a 35c tire. His math is correct, but a higher PSI and a larger wheel diameter will, generally speaking, make for a faster, more nimble bike. At some point someone pointed out that 26″ wheels aren’t ideal for actually riding distances, to which a commenter linked to Surly’s Long Haul Trucker with 26″ wheels.

At first glance and by that logic, you could agree, but the reality is 26″ wheels are used when touring takes a rider to more remote areas. Along with their ability to handle in off-road conditions better than 700c, the 26″ wheels and wheel products are more readily-available in remote regions. Worldwide, the 26″ wheel is the most common wheel diameter. 700c wheels are more ideal for road-use and randonneuring riding. Larger wheels and larger-diameter tires will equal a more efficient mode of transportation; or so it is argued.

Photo via Bmore Fixed

Now, I’m not completely against 26″ wheels on 700c bikes. Hell, one of the biggest problems we had to face when designing the Bruiser was trying to get the same head tube angle on all size options. If we went 26″ on the XS and Small frames, the bikes would probably look a lot nicer, proportionally speaking anyway. 26″ wheels do offer a better stand-over for riders, especially since most 700c bikes are designed around a 28c tire.

Young Gun from Trick Track’s 59cm Eighth Inch Scrambler with dual 26″

Which leads me to this point, as illustrated above; 26″ wheels on the larger bikes looks, well, retarded. (Sorry Young Gun).

Now we’re at the cusp of a defining moment in 700cmx. Should we be designing bikes to fit 26″ or 700c wheels? Or should we abandon the 700c wheel all together when it comes to the extreme urban fixed bikes? Will mid-bottom brackets and crazy-crimped stays allow for both 26″ and 700c? What about BB-drop? Remember, a really high bottom bracket will drastically alter your center of gravity on the bike.

There’s no telling where this sport is going. It’s a slippery slope for sure and it seems like we’re digressing to 26″ MTBs, rather than fixed 29rs.

Here are my thoughts. Instead of going for a smaller diameter rim (26″ has a bsd of 559mm and 700c has a bsd of 622mm), make a rear rim that is both wide (33mm would be ideal) and deep (+/- 35mm deep). The depth will allow you to use shorter spokes and when laced 4x on a 36h hoop, will be strong as hell. If you’re riding at least 38c tires, you shouldn’t trash this wheel. I’m 220 lbs and even though I’ve taco’d wheels before, I’ve also found this formula to be really successful. For instance, while filming for the Revival, I trashed a brand-new wheel by landing awkwardly on it off a jersey barrier. Afterwards, I laced the same exact wheel and have had it for over 6 months. It’s still in great condition too. The bottom line is; if you land awkwardly on any wheel, larger than 24″, you’re going to trash it.

I think we need to embrace the 700c wheel as long as possible. It’s where all this came from and while you may feel like a 26″ wheel is the answer for freestyle, it may not be the answer to the urban-commuting / tricking bikes we’ve all come to love. If you feel like 26″ is for you, by all means, experiment and try it out, because that’s what brought us to doing tricks on fixed gears in the first place. Maybe you could also try riding a big bike (26″ mtb or a 24″ bmx) and see how you like that. Like most bikes, specialty is key and while I’m not saying 700cmx bikes are more suited for tricks, I am saying that they’re more suited to their current state as a commuter / freestyle bike. I know it’s still fixed, but at what point will the fixed drivetrain become the thing that’s hindering the sport? Much like the 700c wheel is hindering the sport now?

Who knows though, seeing how fast these bikes have evolved, their progression (or regression) is unpredictable. There are tons of points I’ve overlooked here, so feel free to comment below, or engage in the discussion on Trick Track.

PPLS Bike Interview: Fast Friday’s David Rowe

jonlaurencic — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:45:41 +0000

FAST FRIDAY is documentary by David Rowe, which follows the growth of Fixed Gear culture in Seattle, Washington. Dustin Klien, a local fixie rider, began track bike get togethers in his studio where he also ran his clothing company, Cadence Clothing. The events were held monthly with riders competing in track stands, quick stops, tricks, and races. Within little more then a year, the scene caught on and Fast Fridays went from a few friends hanging out in Dustin’s studio to huge events made up with hundreds of riders from all over the state and even some from other parts of the country.

Watching this movie makes you want to call up your buddies, grab a couple beers and hit the streets to enjoy everything that makes cycling enjoyable. This film captures just that. We here at PPLS say it and so does the film, cycling is way more than just a form of transportation. I was snooping around Tudou and found found the full Fast Friday movie. So you can all check it out!

A few weeks after seeing the film I thought it would be cool to do an interview with the director and after a nice little email; here we have it! David also mentioned that he has a new fixed gear documentary coming out called TO LIVE AND RIDE IN LA. I decided to ask a few questions about that as well. Unfortunately there are no video posts that can be viewed in China so I have a couple of screen shots from both flicks to go along with it interview

So here it is… Thanks David!

PPLS: What got you interested in making a Documentary about the Seattle bike scene?

DAVID: It was really the community that got me interested. There’s not many sports or hobbies that bring together people from all different backgrounds like this one was doing. It was like a club for people who like to drink and ride bikes, that’s a club I would’ve belonged to in High School, but all they had was tennis.

PPLS: How did you hook up with the Fast Friday / Cadence crew?

DAVID: I was actually shooting a documentary on the Seattle Hip hop scene at the time and a friend of mine was just getting into track bikes and attended his first Fast Friday. He was so excited about it and had such a good time that he convinced me to come to the next one and film it. Once I was there and met everyone I became really interested in the event and decided to keep shooting. I really liked the vibe of what everyone was doing, just getting together as friends and everyone was welcome. I became good friends with Dustin Klein so it was really fun to just hang out and shoot with him and the event that he started.

PPLS: Fast Friday grew from an event in Dustin’s shop to hundreds of people gathering to hang out and compete. Why do you think these events grew so large?

DAVID: I think people were really having a good time at such a fun organized bike event. Once they realized how chill it was and how it was more about having a good time than it was a competition, they started telling their friends and it became a regular thing to do for a lot of people. The word just spread and everyone wanted to be a part of it. Fixed gear cycling was just starting to get popular then too so more and more people were riding and looking for others who rode too.

PPLS: This film seemed to be pretty organic in the way the fixie scene grew. Did you have any expectations or a vision for the film when you first started filming?

DAVID: I had no expectations or goal when I first started shooting. I thought maybe at most I would make a sort of commercial for Dustin, something to put on youtube and spread the word, but when I saw how popular it was becoming and how there was a demand for more and more video on the subject I decided that maybe this was an opportunity to make a movie and get it out to an audience. Now since I filmed most of it without any expectations or vision to begin with I was left with a lot of hours of aimless footage which really proved to be challenging when it came time to edit and try to make sense of it.

PPLS: Fast Friday has become a must see film for Fixed Gear riders. What do you think of the recognition that the film has gotten?

DAVID: Since I had no expectations with this project to begin with I decided that if I made something that the riders of Fast Friday themselves enjoyed then I would be happy, but I never imagined it would be as successful as it has been. It really blows me away when I hear from people all over the world who are inspired by the movie or the event itself, I’m just glad to be a part of something so positive, it’s great to be able to show the world the event that Dustin created.

PPLS: What do you want people to take away from Fast Friday?

DAVID: That cycling is fuckin’ rad! Doesn’t matter what type of bike you ride or who you are, this movie shows that people of all types can get along and do something positive together with this mode of transportation in common. I love when friends or family who don’t ride watch the movie and tell me it made them want to get back on a bike, and even if they don’t ride again, they now have a new respect for the cyclists they share the streets with.

PPLS: You have a new fixed gear film on the way. Can you give us a little pitch about what this one is all about?

DAVID: I think the title says exactly what this movie is about: “To Live and Ride in LA.” It’s getting a view of Los Angeles from a cyclists perspective, exploring the different areas, races, and events of LA through the people who live here and also getting a visitors perspective.

PPLS: Why did you find it important to highlight another fixed gear scene?

DAVID: I recently moved here to Los Angeles and was pretty shocked at how dominated this town is by cars, it’s absolutely unfriendly to cyclists and pedestrians, I’m not used to a place where sometimes sidewalks just don’t exist and you’re forced to walk in a street with no shoulder and cars blowing by at 50mph. Riding is almost worse, the roads are so fucked up everywhere and drivers are the worst here, it made me want to find out more about the people who ride these streets everyday in the different environments. LA is so spread out, and every different area has it’s own characteristics, advantages and disadvantages for riding.

PPLS: Do you have a vision of where the fixed gear scene is going or how you hope it progresses?

A: It’s a bit of a trend right now and that’s some people’s only reason for riding, but people will always ride bikes and track bikes have great advantages to them. The more people on bikes, the less people in cars, it’s better for the environment and better for our bodies. A lot more people are seeing the advantages of getting on a bike and that’s a good thing. People have their own reasons for riding fixed gear, if it’s strictly a trendy thing and they’re only doing it to be cool, well that sucks, but at least they’re on a bike so it’s not all bad. Fixed gears were the first bikes invented and have stuck around this long so I don’t imagine them going away any time soon.

PPLS: What’s the best part of being involved in these scenes?

DAVID: When you’re in a big group of people on bikes no one gives you shit for drinking beer on the street! And if the cops try to stop you, you just jump on your bike and bounce, they can’t catch all of you.

PPLS: Favorite pre-ride / in-ride drink?

DAVID: Beer. Nothing quenches your thirst like an ice cold beer, it’s just like water but it gets you drunk. The only shitty part is when it starts to come back up when I’m killing myself on the long hill back to my house.

PPLS: Your most epic bail?

DAVID: Somehow I ran into my own apartment building once, I don’t know how it happened, it’s not like it jumped out at me, it’s a damn building. Must’ve been the beer.

PPLS: Favorite riding music?

DAVID: I listen to so much music when I’m indoors that I prefer to hear the sounds of the city when I ride. Sirens, helicopters, gunshots, usual things you hear in nature.

That’s all folks!

B&J Together Bicycle

tdbowa — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:03:04 +0000

A few weeks ago I had to take a trip down to Hong Kong to sort out some Visa issues. Naturally, I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to in Shenzhen and check out the first fixie shop in town, B&J Together Bicycle.

The shop was opened up about 6 months ago, when there were only about 10 local fixed gear riders in Shenzhen. With the help of the shop, the community has now grown to over 100 riders in just a short amount of time.

The shop is owned by ‘ Monkey ‘, who I had the pleasure of meeting before during the Beijing Alleycat held back in June. He’s truly a young entrepreneur, who also runs a great clothing company called Whose Trap. I snapped a few photos, sat down for drink, and talked to them about their store.

Right now they carry just Airwalk Fixed Gear and Speedcat products, with a few H+ Son rims, and some other imported parts from Taiwan. But, they’ve assured me that their store is going to grow and they will have many new products soon.

Congrats to the guys for organizing a ton of events, and really setting off the local scene, and thanks for the sweet shirt !

Life in Shanghai : A Video by Karl Ke

Tyler Bowa — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:21:13 +0000

How do you perceive life in Shanghai ? Is it all hustle bustle ? Or is there more to it then that . . .

I sat down with Karl Ke, producer / editor / writer of one of Youku’s fastest growing popularized videos.

(check out the video HERE)

T : I’ve seen the video, and it’s great. Did you do all of the work ?

K : Yeah, I came up with the idea then filmed everything myself. From there I did all of the editing and voila !

T : Nice ! In a few simple words, what is this video about ?

K : Well, the main idea was to capture life in Shanghai. In the video Nick gets a call from friends to go for a few drinks at the local shop. From there, it’s just everyday conversations, laughs, and smiles.

T : I see that the video already has 92,000 plays !! Why do you think it has become so popular on Youku ?

K : (laughs) It’s actually a competition I entered through Nikon !

T : Oh ! Can you explain the competition for me ?

K : Nikon has asked for video submissions that detail in our own eyes how we ’see’ Shanghai. To me, there is much more happening in this city than bars, clubs, high end fashion . . I see Shanghai as something more than just a worldly destination – There is truly life all around us in this city.

(competition link HERE)

T : I’m totally with you on that one. How can we vote for your video ?

K : You can vote online, by visiting my profile and clicking on the little yellow box. Remember to vote number 5 !

(link to profile HERE)

T : Done and done. Thanks so much !

(check out the video HERE)